Outside of seminaries, are there any academic positions whatsoever where “unorthodoxy” is explicitly named as grounds for dismissal? Appalling. I’m a lot more sympathetic than most atheists to the efforts of sophisticated Christian apologists, but this sort of incident reminds me how insane the intellectual culture is.

Luke,

Thanks for the promotion of our radio show. Our show was not as polished as yours starting off. I had a $40 mic, no editing experience, and had never taken any speaking classes. I think you can see a rather significant gain in quality in the newer episodes though.

Cheers!

Greg

I was just sketching something like Hypothesis months ago, someone else got the idea out first … I feel coroborated but a little bit dissapointed about myself, got outsmarted in some sense, while I think they still lack some important ideas to make it more user friendly…, It’s nice to see it’s going to be Open Source and there are going to be APIs, maybe I’ll use them, who knows.

And just to reminder you, others than christians do this too. Richard Stenberg, for example, lost his job when he agreed to publish Stephen Meyer´s ID-paper in a professional journal.

I’m sorry to be the one to have to break this to you, but you’ve been lied to by the people you trust.

Sternberg was never fired from any job.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#part2

See also here:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006/12/creating_a_martyr_the_sternber.php#more

Even hired gun and professional science-enemy Tom Gilson is no longer pushing this lie.

But since Christian “intellectual culture” is, as you maintain, something more than a din of lies and dishonesty, I’m sure you will rush to correct your brethren with this new information.

Cl, please site examples

epistememe,

Cl, please site examples

What, you want me to wipe your ass for you, too? Don’t be so lazy. Use that thing called the internet and see what you can find.

As for me, I already know it’s true and don’t care to convince you or earn your respect.

No, you’ve got it wrong, presumably because you prefer contrarian culture wars over thinking. I’ve stated fact as fact, and you’re just confirming my suspicions about intellectual laziness. Show me that you can actually do two minutes worth of research, then let’s talk about what you find.

@Epistememe & CL,

I am sure that CL, though he is not jumping at the opportunity to be helpful, can find examples because at the end of the day Christianity does not have a monopoly on arseholes.

Not quite the same but I remember, offhand, that the winner of this year’s nobel prize for chemistry (discovery of quasicrystals), and Cantor were somewhat persecuted by other great scientists who disagreed with them.

Perhaps it happens more often among religious groups because counter-ideological ideas are seen as threatening to the eternal salvation of the soul (and possibly a very real danger of damnation). If science goes off track for a bit it…delays the enlightenment of humanity until we sort it out. The stakes are different.

Thomas: I´m not an ID-advocate, but my point is that a very good professional lost his job just because he went against the orthodox views.

You say you’re not an ID advocate, and yet here you are promulgating ID propaganda.

You say that Richard von Sternberg is/was a “very good professional,” without citing any evidence. His behaviour speaks otherwise.

You say that von Sternberg “lost his job.” This is false. He had a non-paid position at the Smithsonian, and he did not lose it.

You state that the reason for von Sternberg allegedly losing his job was “just because he went against the orthodox views,” ignoring some obvious reasons – that he subverted the normal editorial process and the normal peer review process to get Meyer’s paper into print. This is not the behaviour of a “very good professional.”

BTW, the core issue at the bottom of all this is the Meyer paper. It is not a high quality piece of science. While purportedly on the Cambrian explosion, it is a laundry list of the usual ID BS. It contains no new or valid research. It contains things that I personally know to be false. Unless you are willing to stand up for the Meyer paper, you cannot claim that von Sternberg was acting as a “very good professional” by sneaking it into print.

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006/12/creating_a_martyr_the_sternber.php“>Creating a Martyr: The Sternberg Saga Continues

I already said that I was wrong about Sternberg! It´s not a big deal for me. Ok?

@antiplastic

Even hired gun and professional science-enemy Tom Gilson is no longer pushing this lie.

Just curious, as I’ve commented over at Tom’s website before – what’s behind the “hired gun” label?

@mp

Yes, hence:

“Not quite the same but…”

Too understated?

Faster Than Light Neutrinos Succumb To Bayesian Method

Jobs in Jeopardy for Christian Scholars Who Believe in Evolution
Tue, Aug. 09 2011

(John) Schneider taught theology at Christian Reformed School Calvin College for 25 years until he was forced to resign after writing a paper that questioned the historical Adam.
…
Daniel Harlow, a religion professor at Calvin College, was investigated by the school after writing a paper with the same premise as Schneider’s, proposing that there is no historical Adam.
…
Karl Giberson was a professor of physics at Eastern Nazarene College until he was dismissed due to his support of evolution.

I sympathize with Licona; a key factor in my deciding not to pursue a career in History was fear of being beholden to a History Departments political leanings or deemed out-of-fashion by the same. That, it seems to me, is the risk one runs of pursing a career in the soft sciences.

But Licona has also chosen to make it waaay harder on himself by choosing to be a New Testament scholar. Although he may have strayed just far enough away from the holy right to cause his ouster from the big sponsors of the field he was trained in, he’s still bat shit crazy to me, and it’s that lonely middle ground that makes him a kind of useless that should drive anyone to drink. So here’s to hoping he learns enough to use what practical knowledge he’s gained from his training and turn it into something useful.

“What, you want me to wipe your ass for you, too? Don’t be so lazy. Use that thing called the internet and see what you can find.

As for me, I already know it’s true and don’t care to convince you or earn your respect.”

I am open minded on this topic, but I honestly can not find anything other than conspiracy websites. It takes just as long to go to Google and copy and paste a link as it does to come here. If that is too much, just name a few examples and I will Google and paste them.

mp: Aren’t the Licona case and cases purported in other disciplines dissimilar?

I looked up Licona. I presume this is the controversy alluded to:

Apologist’s questioning of Matthew 27 creates theological war of words.
A fiery debate has erupted over a leading Southern Baptist apologist’s questioning of Matthew 27. The question: whether Matthew’s reference to many saints rising from their graves after Jesus’ resurrection might not be literal history.
…
Geisler accused Licona of denying the full inerrancy of Scripture…

Full inerrancy? Does Geisler believe that insects have four legs, that bats are a type of fowl, and that rabbits chew their cud? (All in Leviticus chapter 11)

Their may be people crazier than Licona, but he still seems batshit insane to me.

One difference between these theological differences and cases involving scientific fields at secular universities: science is not a matter of faith, so “denial of the orthodoxy” may involve the denial of substantial amounts of actual evidence. I.e. someone fired for teaching creationism at a secular university (and no one is providing examples here) involve questions of competency, not just orthodoxy.

A Case Against An Historical Jesus…
THIS WAS WRITTEN AND COMPILED BY JIM WALKER.
…

Hey, cl

What happened to your website? It still says it’s down for maintenance. When will you start blogging again?