50+ Christian vs. Muslim Debates

by Luke Muehlhauser on January 9, 2009 in Christian Theology,Debates,Islam,Resources,Video

I maintain the biggest list of “atheism vs. theism” debates you’ll find anywhere, over here. There is also a lively debate culture between Muslims and Christians. They each have the same difficulties with the other religion that atheists have with both religions. Here is the largest list of “Christian vs. Muslim” debates you’ll find anywhere (70 of them and counting).

Please comment with additions or corrections; this page is updated often.

See the recent updates. My personal favorites are labeled as best!

Christian Muslim Video Audio Text Year Notes
Abdult Saleed Jeremiah McAuliffe link
Anis Shorrosh & Gleason Archer Jamal Badawi & Hussein Morsi link concepts of God
Anis Shorrosh Ahmed Deedat link Jesus
Anis Shorrosh Ahmed Deedat link Quran vs. Bible
Anthony Buzzard Shabir Ally link Biblical God
Anthony Buzzard Shabir Ally link Jesus
Apologia Phoenix Ahmed Deedat link1 2007
Bible Defender Ahmed Deedat link1 2005
Birmingham students Shabir Ally link
Clifford Forward Shabir Ally link Jesus
Christian_Prince Osama Abdallah link Mohammed
Christian_Prince Osama Abdallah link Jesus’ temptation
Craig Winn Jalal Abualrub link Islam and terrorism
Daniel Scot Nadir Ahmed link Christianity and peace
David Shenk Shabir Ally link Biblical God
David Shenk Shabir Ally link concepts of God
David Shenk Shabir Ally link resurrection
David Shenk Shabir Ally link Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael
David Wood Sheikh Jalal Abualrub link Mohammed
David Wood Ehteshaam Gulam link
David Wood Osama Abdallah link Mohammed
David Wood Farhan Qureshi link Quran
David Wood Adnan Rashid link war and religion
David Wood Adnan Rashid link The Satanic Verses
David Wood Ali Ataie link Mohammed
David Wood Sami Zaatari link peace and Christianity
David Wood Sami Zaatari link peace and Islam
David Wood Bassan Zawadi link Christianity
David Wood Bassan Zawadi link Islam
David Wood Nadir Ahmed link
De Maria Ahmed Deedat link1 2005
Don Johnson Nadir Ahmed link
Erik Bock Ahmed Deedat link Jesus
General Wakefield Ahmed Deedat link crucifixion
George Shillington Shabir Ally link did Paul found Christianity?
James White Hamza Abdul Malik dvd link Bible and Jesus
James White Sheikh Jalal Abualrub link, dvd Bible and Jesus
James White Shabir Ally dvd link crucifixion and atonement
James White Nadir Ahmed link Bible and Jesus
James White Abdullah al-Andalusi link Trinity
Jay Smith Adnan Rashid link Bible and Mohammed
Jay Smith Shabir Ally link Quran and Bible
Jay Smith Shabir Ally link (2nd debate)
Jay Smith Shabir Ally link (3rd debate)
Jay Smith Shabir Ally 1 2 (4th debate)
Jay Smith Jamal Badawi link Quran
Jimmy Swaggart Ahmed Deedat link Bible
Josh McDowell Ahmed Deedat link crucifixion
Keith Thompson Nadir Ahmed link
Keith Thompson Sami Zaatari link link
anonymous Christian anonymous Muslim link 1150 medieval debate, translated into English
Mike Licona Ali Ataie link resurrection
Mike Licona Shabir Ally link link
Nabeel Qureshi Shadid Lewis link
Narnian Ahmed Deedat link1 2007
Pastor Sjoberg Ahmed Deedat link
Pastor Sjoberg Ahmed Deedat link (2nd debate)
Pastor Sjoberg Ahmed Deedat link (3rd debate)
Rob Scott Adam Deen link
Robert Douglas Ahmed Deedat link link
Sam Shamoun Nadir Ahmed link link 2007
Sam Shamoun Sami Zaatari link Trinity
Sam Shamoun Shabir Ally 1 2 3
Tony Costa Shabir Ally link Jesus
Tony Costa Shabir Ally link 2009
William Cambell Zakir Naik link 1 2 3 4 5 Quran and Bible, science
William Lane Craig Jamal Badawi link link concepts of God
William Lane Craig Shabir Ally link link resurrection
William Lane Craig Shabir Ally link link salvation
William Lane Craig Shabir Ally link link concepts of God
William Lane Craig Shabir Ally link link Jesus
William Lane Craig Shabir Ally link link 2009 Jesus

Added after February 1, 2009

Added February 17, 2009:

  • Mike Licona vs. Shabir Ally.
  • new format, now in a table with sortable columns!

Added May 3, 2009:

  • Tony Costa vs. Shabir Ally
  • David Wood vs. Ehteshaam Gulam
  • Keith Thompson vs. Sami Zaatari
  • William Lane Craig vs. Shabir Ally (2009)

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{ 32 comments… read them below or add one }

IbnAbuTalib February 19, 2009 at 12:51 am

Did you see the recent debate that took place between Shabir Ally and William Lane Craig at McGill University? If so, who do you think came out better?

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lukeprog February 21, 2009 at 6:24 am

IbnAbuTali,

Alas, I did not. If I see a link to a recording, I will add it here.

I must say that William Lane Craig is a better debater, and better-studied. I’m sure Craig won. And I will say the same thing about any of Craig’s debates against an atheist.

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Mark May 4, 2009 at 11:01 am

lukeprog: IbnAbuTali,Alas, I did not. If I see a link to a recording, I will add it here.I must say that William Lane Craig is a better debater, and better-studied. I’m sure Craig won. And I will say the same thing about any of Craig’s debates against an atheist.

Craig’s justification of the Trinity is so stupid. any of his philosophical apology for christianity could be easilly debunked.

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Mark May 4, 2009 at 11:07 am

“When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” – Stephen Roberts

”If you understand the reasons why Muslims dismissed all the other Gods, You will understand why we cannot dismissed our God.” – Me

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zakir naik October 2, 2009 at 3:39 am

nice debates.

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False Angel February 8, 2010 at 8:08 am

========= The coming of false angel and prophets were foretold: “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.” (2 Peter 2:1-3).

ALL DEVILS CAN FORM IN ANY SHAPES and mislead any humans into thinking that he is holy by presenting good scriptures by “supposed” God while smoothly introducing evil ones. Matthew 7:15 – “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

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False Angel February 8, 2010 at 8:10 am

Angel Gabriel who foretold the birth of Son of God is the REAL angel of true God and NOT Jibril, the (apocryphal) false angel, who supposedly claimed he is an angel messenger of God, he (Jibril) who was witnessed by ONLY ONE person (Muhammad who wage wars and did not perform any HUMANISTIC miracles), which unlike sinless Jesus who was witnessed by many and brought messages DIRECTLY from God to the people (NOT directly from angel) he (Jibril) the so-called “angel” who revealed Qur’an (referred Jesus as prophet), which contains the world’s MOST vicious “religious” scriptures compared with other religions: Surahs 2.178, 2.191, 2.193, 2.194, 2.216, 2.217, 4.74, 4.89, 4.91, 4.92, 4.104, 5.33, 5.38, 5.45, 8.12, 8.16, 8.17, 8.39, 8.65, 9.5, 9.12, 9.14, 9.29, 9.30, 9.36, 9.123, 22.39, 33.25, 33.61, 47.4, 48.16, 61.4, etc., which were the very OPPOSITE of what Jesus Christ said: “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.”

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False Angel February 8, 2010 at 8:12 am

Qur’an is more vicious than Old Testament as Islam scriptures promotes religion-induced terrorism unlike Christians who were guided by Jesus Christ’s scriptures and not the Old Testament.

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lukeprog February 8, 2010 at 9:37 am

Oh, Sky Cake. Why are you so delicious?

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Theality Bites March 25, 2010 at 3:42 pm

Hahahah! Nice rebuttal Luke, to a wingnut who refused to address the post topic on any middle ground, but sprout evangelism instead.

Mark, regarding your brash dismissal of Dr Craigs apologetics, I am curious to know why if he is so easily debunked, why he has not lost more of his debates? Even if you do not agree with his conclusions, surely you have to give credit to the man for his ability to turn a phrase and work logic to his cause.

PS. By the by, this is Michael from the Reasonable Faith forum. I really enjoy your writings. Think I might stick around some.

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naji April 29, 2010 at 7:53 pm

Angel Gabriel who foretold the birth of Son of God is the REAL angel of true God and NOT Jibril, the (apocryphal) false angel, who supposedly claimed he is an angel messenger of God, he (Jibril) who was witnessed by ONLY ONE person (Muhammad who wage wars and did not perform any HUMANISTIC miracles), which unlike sinless Jesus who was witnessed by many and brought messages DIRECTLY from God to the people (NOT directly from angel) he (Jibril) the so-called “angel” who revealed Qur’an (referred Jesus as prophet)”  

A) “Muhammad wage wars”: Mohammed only fought when he had too. read this article http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1139326430831&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

B)He did not perform miracles: Every prophet’s greatest miracle is appropriate with the society around him. Moses was sent to people who had magicians, his miracles seemed like magic greater than theirs, because it was divine. Jesus was in a society who were good with medicine. Jesus was able to heal people and resurrect the dead by ALLAH’s will. Muhammad was an Arab. Arabs excelled (and still do) in language and poetry. The Qur’an was greater than any of their language skills, showed to them by an illiterate man who was known for telling the truth. http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/index.php

The Qur’an was the major miracle. But like Jesus and Moses Muhammad had minor miracles.http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543470

C) Muhammad did bring the Qur’an from Jibril (AKA Gabriel, yes they are the same) but he said many things that no man would have been able to know in front of many people.

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naji April 29, 2010 at 8:09 pm

Qur’an is more vicious than Old Testament as Islam scriptures promotes religion-induced terrorism unlike Christians who were guided by Jesus Christ’s scriptures and not the Old Testament.  

You’ll say you have seen many verses in the Qur’an that support your point. The truth is that you probably misunderstood them. That’s why there are books that explain the Qur’an. Read these books.

Look in your history books. See what crusaders have done. Read about the massacres of Andalusia. Now see what the majority of Muslims have done historically. When Muhammad came to the Jews in Medina he offered an alliance with them. It was not until they betrayed him and tried to kill him when he forced them out. Read what the Christians of Palestine say about Islam. They said it was better for them than the Christian roman empire.

about the terrorist attacks that happen nowadays: the ones who do it are a very small minority. They do not represent Islam. Would you accept if I consider the Ku Klux Klan’s way of thinking how all Christians think?

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Veda June 29, 2010 at 5:28 am

It is funny when one reads in the bible for those who will not allow me prevail on them cut their necks, then the same anti – christ forget to interprete these types of verses in fact the bible records and instigate the first holocost in written history when the jews exterminate the pphilestains to the exxtent of killing weman ,children adomestic animals and trees what kind of religions engourages the killing of cjildren all in the name of providing space for the children of isreal, man you atheist guys are quite fuuny i mean charles dogwin brought the theory of natural selection that formed the basis of german socialism of the natsies, if fact anti thiesm thoughts has proved to be more letal than believe in God,because it usaully reduces men to mere animal praticing survival of the fittest

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Zain July 1, 2010 at 6:34 am

I am a Muslim and found the page useful to find the debates I am interested in.

The title of the website is a bit foolish.

Common sense atheism indicates that there is a ‘non-sense’ atheism. And website is trying to differentiate between the two :)

As far as I have seen the common sense portion was either not there from the start or it is extinct. Either way it is not visible when viewing carefully.

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lukeprog July 1, 2010 at 8:40 am

Zain,

I explain what I mean by “common sense atheism” here.

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Zain July 19, 2010 at 11:19 am

It sounds if there is any ‘common sense’ atheism so there must be ‘non-sense’ atheism :)

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OBEDEDOM September 6, 2010 at 1:34 pm

interesting that overall, “Faith” is causing these divisions. Jesus said in essence that you can do more damage with your words. So the question has to be, if Moslems are peace based, and look upon Jesus as a great prophet, second only to Mohammed, and Christians, state that love of an enemy negates the law of eye for eye, why do you debate so endlessley?

Is it productive? Are you out changing the world around you that is lost and hellbound, or do you sit at your pc and waffle on about frankly old hat stuff. If Jesus is God, his ways of love and peace, and ultimate salvation will outlive the heretical teachings of an uneducated peadophile tradesman. If Mohammed is the final word on God, then I’m afraid following a dead man leads to a graveyard. It’s quite simple, if God is who he says he is do you not think he is able to show you? Geta grip and preach the truth of the gospel (Injil) Which mohammed told you muslims to read along with the torah, but which you say is “Unclean” because of translation, and that somehow God dooesn’t want all people to be able to understand> even worse that his omnipience is not sufficient to speak to unlearned people. He loves you all but ultimately will not see his name desecrated.

Jesus is God, that I know. He changed my life so dramayically, after 14 years of injecting heroin that the fact of his deity is undeniable. I was a total athiest without regard for God or man, but I know he is real and changed my life so much so, that words seem pointless in trying to describe this.

Ask Him if you are really God show me

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Love and Peace January 15, 2011 at 12:49 pm

Look if you want to worship the god that created this earth the land the seas the plants the trees be a christian but if you want to worship the god that created the universe the space the solar system you must be a MUSLIM

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we are born to worship March 31, 2011 at 7:20 pm

in the Bible it said that Jesus pray to God/Allah If so how it can God pray to God….
any one with common sense will understand that Jesus was not God or son of God but He was beloved Messenger of God…
in this video everyone will see how Shorrosh were runing from answering questions by either relative answers or counter questions anyway arabyan Shorrosh did not answer any question probably.

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Jakir April 4, 2011 at 2:20 pm

Christian brothers, please try to undertand and harmonious with this fact that, Jesus never told ‘I’m your God, worship me’, Never! Never! Never!

In bible there are lots of scientific mistakes that any literate man/woman will undertand that bible is wasted. Truely, it is scared. I’m not saying to trust my words but please brothers read it yourself and find the truth.

Brothers, if you ever can find out any kind of scientific mistake in our Al-Quran then please notify me or any well islamic-knowledged person. I promise you, if your are absolutely correct in your opinion then I will accept any kind of religion.

One more thing, don’t look at those terrorists who kill innocents rather find out a good muslim and then know him. I’m sure your every false opinion about muslims will be lost to sight.

Don’t be aggressive but be rational. The truth is unchangeable and unique. The God is One and it is Allah. Jesus, Moses and Mohammad ,all are His messengers.
Amin.

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Amos ben Dawid June 20, 2011 at 9:36 pm

… ONLY ONE person (Muhammad who wage wars and did not perform any HUMANISTIC miracles)…

I’m a Jewish brother, a yeshiva graduate actually, but I am curious….
What wars did Muhammad wage upon? I’m only familiar with the Battle of Badr, but the Kuraysh pagans were persecuting Muhammad and his followers because they believed in the God of Abraham, not pagan gods. Any educated scholar in christianity and judaism knows that Allah is synonymous with Elah, which means “The GOD”, whom is the God of Israel. Rightfully, Muhammad and his followers were defending themselves. Therefore the antagonists were the Kuraysh pagans. Although we Jews and you Christians don’t recognize him as a prophet, but at least Jews have the sense to know that Muslims worship the exact same God as us. To include that they believe in the exact same prophets in the bible, and your beloved Jesus as the Messiah, although they view him in the truest sense…as the Jewish messiah, not the romanized paganism of the Christian Messiah that is a god reincarnate who died for sins in lieu of an unforgiving god that begats children. Islam is more nearer to the God of Israel than Christianity. I am even sure Jesus was more of a Muslim than this version of christianity I see today.

For one man whom brought unity and comradeship together from broken tribes to work together as one, teach charity and honor to others, and that the God of Israel is the One True God and NOT some hundreds of pagan gods. Plus, to include the 10 Commandments of Moses as the foundation of Islamic Law, the Shari’a. I, as well as millions of other Jews consider that a huge humanistic miracle!

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Adam September 4, 2011 at 10:06 pm

[Responding to Jakir]
Firstly, you can never put Muhammad in the same calibre as Jesus and Moses – for the simple reason that Muhammad never heard or even claimed to have heard the voice of God. Therefore he cannot even be deemed a prophet according to Scripture. Which begs the question, if you acknowledge Jesus as prophet why do you deny what He claims? Isn’t this irrational according to your own logic?

Isaiah 9:6 shows that the ‘Messiah’ will be called “Mighty God”. Jesus may not have asked everyone to “worship him” but He certainly claimed to be Messiah. He called Himself the “I AM” and the Son of God, which the Pharisees then tried to stone Him for making Himself “equal with God” (Jn 5:18; 10:33). His disciples even referred to Him as “Lord and God”

You claim that the Bible is full of scientific errors, yet you fail to mention one. The Quran however certainly has contradictions. In light of Jesus’ claims to be Messiah, Surat Al-Mā’idah 5:47 says that we are to “judge by what Allah revealed in the Injeel (Gospel of Jesus)” at which Jesus says that “He is the only way to the Father” (Jn 14:6). Now, you might say that the “Quran Injeel” is different to the Gospels of the Bible – either way there are over 5,500 copies of the New Testament – all of which are evidence to the words of Jesus. He certainly claimed to be the ONLY way to the Father.

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jah September 8, 2011 at 5:57 am

May be all of the books (Torah,Zabur,Gospel,Qur’an) are writings of men. But the concept of ‘One true god’ is fascinating. I think every person behind these religions ( Moses,Jesus and Mohammed) were true to their heart and looked forward for a greater future for mankind. But the mankind has grown beyond that, so we don’t need any religion to say whats good and whats bad to us anymore.

But as a former muslim, I would like to tell u that living as a muslim was quite good. There is security, structure and care behind the strict face of Islam.

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Adam October 18, 2011 at 5:28 pm

[Responding to jah]
First and foremost I want to reiterate something that I wrote in my previous post. Muhammad is not a prophet because he never heard from God, therein he never even claimed to have heard from God – by default he is not in the same calibre as Jesus or Moses, no matter how many people follow him. Moses prophesied the coming of Jesus – Moses and his teaching cannot be separated from the teachings of Jesus, it’s all a part of the big picture.

Of course Jesus wants a better world for humanity – but Jesus is God, and His message transcends time itself. Mankind is not some progressive supreme being that no longer requires moral standards that come with living with God. Living as a Muslim may be ‘good, secure, and structured’ but the difference between religion and True Christianity is that religion is self-centred and selfish. In a Biblical view, sanctification is a demonstration of Christian life motivated by outgoing love to our neighbour, not by a desire to ensure permanence of our salvation. Your main assumption of ‘mankind not needing religion to say what’s good and what’s bad’ involves a lot of trust in humanity based on a poor anthropological understanding – we need law, hence police; we need to discipline our children or else they will never learn the difference of right from wrong. All the laws that God gave to His people were for their good and sometimes even for their protection – if a “Christian” thinks by being a “good person” they can become “rewarded with eternity in heaven” I’m afraid that they have missed the picture – that is far from what the Bible teaches.

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Ghaz Al-Malazie November 21, 2011 at 1:22 am

Hello, I’d like to contribute whatever little that I know of Islam. We were taught by prophet Muhammad pbuh that the Psalm, the Torah, and the Injeel were the scriptures of God. The problem is that their originality HAD BEEN tampered with and that God had not made any guarantee of safe-guarding them, unlike the Qur’an which has been guaranteed by God and is being protected from tinkering. Prophet Muhammad pbuh even taught us that “if the people of the book come to you and claim that such and such a verse is from the Torah or Injeel, do not make any comment, for the verse could be the true words of Allah or words of Allah amended (by man).” As to the accusation that prophet Muhammad pbuh never heard from God, he not only heard but also eye-witnessed God himself during the “Isra’ and Mi’raj”. Believing in Islam cannot be achieved by arguments alone, as when you argue, you would want to show your adversary that you are right and that he/she is wrong. So, my advice is, in your solitude, pray to the True God: Dear Lord, whoever you are, please guide me to thy path!

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Jah November 26, 2011 at 9:24 pm

(Correct me If Im wrong)

Moses prophesied the coming of Jesus –

Show a jew that so called prophesy….

Moses and his teaching cannot be separated from the teachings of Jesus, it’s all a part of the big picture.

Look at the history of books and teachings of prophets. The difference you can see is in Christianity where god is very loving, kind and even bear the sin of man. But in the teachings of other prophets , god is very strict , punishing and says we must bear the sin of our own.

To me , If I get a chance to choose between the god of Christianity and the god of other prophets, I will go for christian god for sure ( I dont want to bear my sin)

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Adam November 30, 2011 at 2:35 am

[Responding to Jah]
Apart from gaining an understanding of the different beliefs interpreting the Biblical texts (i.e. what Jews think, what Muslims think, etc.) I do not see why you would ask a Jew when this discussion is about the erroneous view of Islam. You are completely right when you imply that a Jew will not consider the Great Prophet to be Jesus but why then are many Jews forbidden by their Rabbi’s to read certain segments of Scripture (i.e. Daniel 10, Isaiah 9:6). Those passages declare the Messiah to be God – Islam and Judaism’s view on the ONENESS of God is therefore questionable. The Jews and Christians (in hindsight) both expected the Messiah to be a man that would come to save them – this was never questioned. Of course, the Muslim will turn this around with the “cop-out” saying that the Scripture has been corrupted. Using basic mathematics, we can see the probability of the authenticity of the Bible… The Masoretic texts written in 800AD found in 1500s (what the Bible was translated from prior to 1900s) is virtually identical to the Qumran copies of the Old Testament, which were written 250BC-70AD. Right there, there is an 800-year span of uncorrupted Scripture.

Now, you make a HUGE assumption in saying that the God of the Old Testament in “very strict, punishing and says we must bare our own sin”. Basically, it’s a common misunderstanding of the Old Testament – I would recommended getting a hold of the book, “Jesus Christ: Lord and Saviour” by Donald Bloesch for the following reason – all of God’s action in the Old Testament are out of love. Quite frankly, if you look for His love, you can see how much it comes through in His actions. For example the very first thing God did when humankind had fallen and sinned against God was make clothes for them to cover their shame… who can call Him punishing? Wrongdoing ought to be punishable – but your idea of a loving God is very “airy-fairy”. The God of the Bible – both Old and New Testaments is described as JUST, MORAL, and LOVING – do you not love your children if you discipline them? Of course you love them but wrongdoing ought to be punishable. God’s love cannot be separated from His just nature otherwise He would not be omnipotent. He is loving in all He does. The Jews had a whole sacrificial system which they used to cover their sins (which by the way, symbolically works perfectly with Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice to cover our sins). What people don’t understand is that it was the love of the Father (commonly known as the Old Testament God) that made Him send His Son Jesus to take the sins of the world in order for Him to spend eternity with the creation He loves so much. This is the ONE God – even the language of Genesis (in Hebrew) will show you God saying: Let us (plural) create (singular)… God is plural in persons but ONE in Essence. An oversimplified example of this is like the sun: it simultaneously equals heat, light, and energy. No one ever assumes we have three suns though, that would be ridiculous, likewise we should not assume the Christian God is plural because He is Father, Son and Spirit. There are plenty of Scriptures beyond Genesis that point to the Triune God. God loves that what He has and will always do.

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Adam November 30, 2011 at 3:00 am

[Responding to Ghaz Al-Malazie]
Firstly, I would like to apologize for my ignorance to the Isra and Mi’raj. To be completely honest if I were to turn around and say that Muhammad couldn’t have eye-witnessed God because the Scripture says that that you cannot see the face of God and live (Exodus 33:20), typically I will be told that the passage has been corrupted. This is such a cop-out and a deceptive tool – it is very arrogant to assume a text that came approximately 600-700 years after the Torah and Gospels of the New Testament is “more” correct and supreme. God doesn’t change and nor does His Word – this is both a true statement of the Torah, the Gospels, and even consistent in the Quran. Now, God’s promise to keep His Word has been from day one – otherwise God is a liar. We know God isn’t a liar – at least in the Christian Bible because it is consistent in what it says. Allah, however is into deceiving people it says in Surat 4:136-176… Allah ‘disguised someone to look like Jesus on the cross”? I’m sorry, but as far as trust goes… I just don’t have enough faith in Allah or Muhammad’s claims to be a Muslim. As for the prayer you told me to pray – I did that, and I saw Jesus – that is why I believe what I believe. To be 100% completely honest – I promise you in the presence of God – I told a few of my Muslims students to pray that prayer – the next week that I saw them they claimed to have seen Jesus. I think what you should pray with a sincere heart Ghaz Al-Malazie is “Jesus, if you truly are the real God, the Son of God – show me that you’re real and I will follow you for the rest of my days. Amen.” There’s no point asking to see God if you’re going to continue in your own ways – so please with a true heart, pray this prayer and I know you experience what my students did.

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Eebster December 26, 2011 at 5:54 am

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
In the name of Allah the most merciful,

I ask god not to let me go astray, and ask his guidance in what I type so that I do not say something wrong so that I don’t encourage people like Adam with their blinded hate towards God (Allah) swt and the final messenger of god and prophet Muhammed عليه الصلاة و السلام.

neither my words or the words of any Muslim defending Islam are the final words of god, but the Quran is.
I ask you not to judge our mistakes to be the mistakes of Islam and god (Allah).
The same way all Muslims should do their best to avoid using the words of a person (whether a random follower or a high cleric) as the final words over the Gospels for Christians.
Allow me to add 1 more thing regarding what Ghaz has tried to speak of, a very important point that he left out whether he left it out by accident due to forgetfulness then (اعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم). Or he was not aware of it, which I would suggest he should try and read more about it.
During the الإسراء و المعراج when the prophet was ascended (he goes through the seven heavens meeting the different prophets until he goes to whats beyond the seventh heaven which is paradise….when he went beyond paradise he hears god, god does not speak in the same way we do, allow me to copy paste “He reached a place where he heard the creaking of the pens used by the angels who are copying from the Preserved Tablet. It is at that location Prophet Muhammad heard the Kalam of Allah, which is an attribute of the Self of Allah. He heard the Kalam of Allah which does not resemble our speech–so it is not something that occurs bit after bit. It is not letter after letter or a word that comes after another word. Rather, it is an attribute of Allah which is eternal and everlasting. It does not resemble our attributes. The Kalam of Allah has neither silence nor interruptions. It is an attribute of Allah, and it does not resemble the attributes of the creation.” (the idea of kalam of Allah would not make sense in our limited selves and thought, the same way that the idea of time is embedded in us along with everything else that is only attributed to us, it’s not really possible for the Human mind to think out of this box.) and this is where god has told the Prophet to tell the followers to pray 5 obligatory prayers a day.
To get to the point, no the Prophet Muhammed did NOT see Allah .

@Adam,
You could have easily looked that up before accusing god (allah a liar)

It seems you have placed God at the level of a Human, at the level of his creation.
When Christians say god Sacrificed his Son because he loved us (when he didn’t need to), and used the cross which was a tool used 1000s of years before the event as a CURSE. to do it, so that people could look upon the cross as a symbol of savior rather then Curse, and to direct their prayers to it, is rather strange, but that’s just my opinion.
Let me ask you this, Who is greater, us or god? who is the creator and who is the createe?
I’m sure the answer to both of those questions would be God.
So on this earth that we live in, before we ascend to the heavens, who is on trial?
The way you speak of God (Allah ) is as if he was the one on trial “Allah, however is into deceiving people it says in Surat 4:136-176… Allah ‘disguised someone to look like Jesus on the cross”? I’m sorry, but as far as trust goes… I just don’t have enough faith in Allah or Muhammad’s claims to be a Muslim”.
Yes, Allah deceived the deceivers, out planned the planners.
and now you whine and tell me “how dare got deceive those deceivers!”
When were you the judge Jury and prosecutor and God became the prosecuted?
Think before you speak, and remember that in the day of Judgement you will be questioned for all of this is Gods test onto us.
As mentioned before, your biggest mistake is to believe that it is god that is on the stand when you forget that it is you, you will never have the rights to judge gods actions, whether it was because he destroyed nations before your own eyes, or allow the suffering to happen when god has the ability to say let it be and it will be.
God has a reason for every action, and our simple minds that are as narrow as a thin strand of hair compared to this universe can not make any accurate judgments especially regarding the unknown when god is all knowing (I’m sure they teach that in your school of thought? or do you simply believe god is a mere human, which I doubt seeing that’s not the Christian way of thinking).

Yes god is loving and I agree with you, what I don’t agree with you (and please correct me if I’m wrong) but god isn’t all loving, god loves good deeds from anyone, and god loves good deeds done in the name of Allah, at the same time god can be wrathful, and is the punisher.
For those who defy god and his prophets (all of them) will be punished, and there is no punishment in this world as sever as that. Even in Christianity god will punish those who refuse to claim Jesus as the son of god.

Regarding your Muslims students that saw Jesus when they were thinking of god, I can not deny what happened, but that does not prove anything other then imo these muslims were very very weak and have gone astray.
To ask me to think of a painting the Romans or what not painted on a wall, or statues, when I’m thinking of god kind of gives me the feeling I’m going back to the pagan days.
I will always Love and respect Jesus (isa) pbuh as the prophet and messenger, and if I dream of him, I would see it as a blessing second to dreaming of the prophet Muahmmed pbuh, but never will I claim he is god.

“Jesus, if you truly are the real God, the Son of God – show me that you’re real and I will follow you for the rest of my days. Amen.”
a recipe for disaster, you’re just opening the door for the devil, or self interest to do its work here.

when someone says “Sol (or Rah), if you truly are the real…..etc”, WITH AN OPEN HEART the same would work, my proof is that these falsified gods and idols had so many followers as well…

I hope I did not offend anyone as that was not my intention

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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Adam December 28, 2011 at 4:54 pm

[Responding to Eebster]
Eebster, again, it is my fault and I apologize for overlooking Muhammad’s experience in the Isra and Mi’raj. This experience however does not prove anything – we have to open our eyes and look at everything that has been placed on the table. Firstly, we need to drop the whole “Bible has been corrupted and what we have is no longer the Word of God” – reason being, Jesus was prophesied thousands of years before His coming. So the oldest manuscripts we have of the Old Testament are dated thousands of years before Jesus’ coming – meaning that the “Christians” couldn’t have distorted the Torah. So, the Jews and people holding to that copy of the Torah had the evidence of Jesus’ deity. Now, in the New Testament we have multiple texts that were written by eyewitnesses of Jesus, and all the events and teachings that occurred therein. These texts were all available and public documents to cities and villages. Any changes to them were simply impossible – this would be like someone changing a national anthem and successfully getting away with it. It is simply impossible to alter the words of the New Testament. Therefore, where we have now arrived is at a place where Jesus is proven to be the Great Prophet that was prophesied by Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. written centuries before Jesus’ coming and we have an accurate account of what Jesus said. He certainly claimed to be God and He certainly claimed to be the Messiah when He referred to Himself as, “The I Am”. The detail of His virgin birth, the accurate prophesy of being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, the very count of 39 lashes at the time of His death, etc. show that Jesus is the Messiah that will be called “Almighty God” (Isaiah 9:6). Based on the prophesies about Jesus which were written and recorded centuries before His coming (which we still have copies of) mathematically the chances of only 8 of the detailed prophesies being fulfilled are comparable to filling the entire Grand Canyon with gold coins and blindly selecting the one silver coin that was thrown in somewhere in the mix. It is next to impossible for those prophesies to be fulfilled by any random imposter, but they were in the recorded evidences of Jesus life (all 365 prophesies fulfilled by Jesus). My question now is why should we listen to Muhammad when Jesus said that He was the only way to the Kingdom of Heaven?

Eebster, you speak like a fool, to that which I am sure you are not. I believe God is love, just, and moral – His love is never ending but it cannot be separated from justice and morality. However, the god you talk of seems to be a punisher who acts out of dogma. Is it not laziness when one decides not to pursue God and His reasons for doing something when He has revealed to humanity so much about His character and reasoning? You are right when you say we cannot be the judges of God and we will not know why He does everything He does – but most of what He has done in His Word can certainly be accounted for – because He inspired the Prophets to write of His reasons. It is the very reason why the Prophets of Old had recorded what God had spoken to them. Although Catholics are brothers and sisters in the LORD Jesus Christ as well, unfortunately, they too have been found guilty for holding to strongly to blind dogmatics when the answers are right in front of them. Most of your “Christian references” are regarding Catholics – which ought to be neglected, because anyone that has done basic research would acknowledge that many of their practices are unbiblical – tradition, if you will.

On that note, you speak as though you know of the “Christian God” but then you make a claim like “Even in Christianity god will punish those who refuse to claim Jesus as the son of god.” Eebster, you cannot be further from the truth my friend. Since when has hell [Sheol] been a torture chamber? A naughty corner? That theology is so out of line with what the Biblical Scriptures teach. Hell is simply godlessness. God has always been (Old Testament and New) about relationship and restoration; hence the first thing God did for Adam and Eve was clothe them from their shame; hence, all but three of the Ten Commandments are relational; hence, the first thing Jesus did for His disciples after raising from the dead was cook breakfast for them. Sin is not just a “naughty action” or a “wrong doing” sin is broken relationship with God. That is why all four disciples recorded Jesus’ words in the Gospels, “Father, why have you forsaken me?” because Jesus, Son of God, had to bear separation from the Father – ontologically, God separated Himself so that NO ONE ever had to be separated from God. Again, you are right in saying that God delights in good deeds and right doing – but He delights in relationship with humanity – that is the VERY reason God created humanity. Your description of god as dogmatic punisher who is permitted double-standard hypocrisy, paints a very sadistic image of a god who I certainly do not believe in. There is absolutely no evidence that such a god exists – a god who creates people only to test their right or wrongdoing and to punish and reward them. Even the ethics of people that have no moral basis state that cloning humans is extremely unethical for the reason of dictating purposeless existence – which is exactly what a god like that would be doing. What is the purpose of creating those who do wrong? Unless, they had fallen from a perfect plan and God (consistent with the sacrificial practices of the Great Prophets as recorded in the Torah) offers them a blood sacrifice as a plan for redemption. You say God didn’t need to sacrifice His son? You’re making your own theology now and if you get your theology from the Quran then I would seriously question its reasoning. The Jewish people can account for this as well; it is beyond a reasonable doubt that blood needs to be shed from a blemish-less sacrifice to cover sin. The ONLY way in which the world can be forgiven for its wrongdoing and broken relationship from God is if Jesus is both FULLY God and FULLY Man. Why Fully God? Because everyone, Muslim, Christian, Jew are all in agreeance that only God can forgive sin and restore relationship to humanity (it is Scriptural). Why Fully Man? Because that which is not assumed is not saved. We are never to pray to the “cross” who told you this. It is not even Biblical or recorded anywhere? The only thing Christians are instructed to do regarding the cross is to “bear it”. In other words, die to yourself and your own ways and pursue God because you cannot serve two masters and it is the only way to serve God.

You fluff around statements like, “Who is on trial you or god?” and “How can Allah deceive the deceivers?” and then attempt to mask is by says it is out of our hands because we are human and god is god. I do not see myself as higher than god. To be completely honest I do not even see myself higher than you or anyone else for that matter. I can only speak on what I know as certainty, if we were to revert to regarding sin as wrongdoing, even if God were to lie (deceive) Satan himself; He would have sin in Him and therefore is not “good”. No one in their right mind would truly believe that two wrongs make a right, would they? There is no reason to do so in this instance. Unfortunately, I cannot side with anyone that holds to this blind dogma, not when there is an answer right under my nose. To say that, “I can’t know why god deceived the deceivers because I am not judge” is a fair statement. Nevertheless, to know that god deceived the deceivers shows that Allah has deceptive qualities, and that will deter me and millions of others from the Islamic faith (i.e. that is a prominent reason why millions of Muslims have turned from Islam after being informed of this truth from Zakaria Botros).

Before you make a statement on the corruptness of the Biblical text, I would like to highlight something that I mentioned in my previous response. The Biblical text has proven it is consist throughout time since the Prophets – my example was the Masoretic Texts and the Essene Documents that span over 1,000 years and remain virtually identical – we are talking about completely different societies by the way. To believe that the Quran is the final supreme Word of God is complete and utter blind faith. The Biblical text accounts for science, philosophy, geology, geography and almost every field of study. Mathematically, the likelihood of the Biblical text being authentic for what it says compared to the likelihood of Muhammad getting a scribe to write out some ideas for him is next to none. There is no premise to believe in what Muhammad said about his visions and what he heard from god because there is no evidence.

Finally, regarding your last statements about my two Muslim students that saw Jesus – this is not a substantial argument and was never intended to be. I was challenged to pray to “whoever the true God is” once upon a time and I experienced Jesus. The Muslim students had done the same. My point is simple, praying for who the true God is has only supported my case – I have witnessed great miracles and experienced the love and teachings of my God because of it. If your god will allow you to be deceived when you pray with an open heart, “God, whoever you are – show me that you’re real and I will follow you for the rest of my days. Amen” then I would not even be following him anymore. If you don’t want to use Jesus’ name then don’t – but genuinely ask God to reveal Himself and He will. You are calling upon God, not a demon – there is no room for deception unless we are talking about a god who deceives the deceivers.

Likewise, I hope that no offense was caused in this post. I truly do see yourself placed before me – and stand below both yourself and God.

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TruthSeeker January 31, 2012 at 7:34 pm

Hi Adam,

Peace be with you. To have a conversation about this wonderful topic in detail will surely take a lot of time, explaining all over and over again. So, to keep this rather more interesting.. I would greatly appreciate if you can find some time to read the following document.

This book is about the history of the bible and it’s contradictions. All bible verses described herein are facts and you can counter check it with your bible. You can find in your bible that the god you believe in dwells in darkness, can be seen and heard, not all-powerful, the author of evil, not to be found by those who seek him, warlike, cruel, merciless, destructive, ferocious, delights in burnt offerings and sacrifices, lies and he sends forth lying spirits to deceive, making of images commanded, circumcision condemned and many more shocking facts that are waiting to be discovered by those who doesn’t read much of their bible. These contradicting verses about God are not acceptable by our commonsense and that man was given the knowledge and wonderful mind to think wisely of what they are trying to believe in.

http://www.islamicsearchcenter.com/library/comparative/Bible-Word-of-God-or-the-Word-of-Man.pdf

This book is all about the scientific verses found in the Quran and the Bible. Most scientific verses found in the Quran were proven only in the 2oth century using our modern technologies and more has not proven yet. We consider it as a miracle because no man can ever know how the universe, galaxies, planets were created nor how they looked like or how they revolve in space.. even how human is created inside the mothers womb, which only God knows but was revealed to us in the Quran. Indeed men in all ages were looking for signs and proof that God exist, now, God has shown many signs in the Quran and yet man still do not believe. What more do man want from God so they will believe.. All Bible scientific verses which are just few was not able to be proven correct by science even in the first part of the bible, the creation of the world in Genesis.. the light was created three days later, wherein fact, the Sun (the light) was there first before the planets came to be according to science.. and which are all illogical and does not make sense at all.

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/BibleQuranScience.pdf

If you find anything wrong or was falsified in these books, please don’t hesitate to discuss. I will find a way to give you more elaborate explanation and I’ll be much willing to have a conversation with you in the future.

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alhassaanabdulrafik February 1, 2012 at 10:00 am

IbnAbuTali,

Alas, I did not. If I see a link to a recording, I will add it here.

I must say that William Lane Craig is a better debater, and better-studied. I’m sure Craig won. And I will say the same thing about any of Craig’s debates against an atheist.

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